Carnegie Reporter, Vol. 1, No. 1 | Narciso Matos: An Interview, page 4 (low bandwidth)

NM: I could help or promote innovations by working with university leaders with whom I have created academic relationships. And I could help tell the African university story of today. At the last conference of the AAU, for example, we discussed the issue of “cost sharing,” which is a coded phrase for students paying for their education, something unheard of in Africa. Five years ago, almost no one would have agreed with that; they would have said that government should pay for education because education is a public good and after all, we educate students to serve the country, so why should students pay for education? But now, vice chancellors by and large agree that students should contribute.

So, yes, you can influence positive developments, but you don’t have the last word on what happens. It depends entirely on the vice chancellors. And that’s important even now at Carnegie Corporation. We can work with vice chancellors, but it’s up to them to do the right things or not.

SK: What made you take a new career turn, to move the family all the way to New York and come to an American institution to work on African higher education?

NM: It was the opportunity to have more leverage on positive developments. To help identify and design good programs. And help vice chancellors implement what I believe is right. Because I know about the kind of situation where sometimes you have a good program but you don’t have resources, and that can be frustrating. I’m not saying that you can be sure that you’ll get the best results just because you have the money. But I can recognize a good program that deserves support.

SK: And now you can deliver the resources.

NM: Yes. I now have the possibility of influencing the program at Carnegie Corporation and to work with colleagues in other foundations.

SK: A partnership.

NM: A partnership. I maintain the same beliefs and discourse about universities in Africa. It may have sounded different when I was at the AAU because at the AAU I was trying to convince the donors to put their money in the universities, but I was doing so from the receiving end. Now, it’s the same objective, namely, to support capacity and institution building, but it’s different. I’m as much concerned as the partners to make sure that we support really good programs, that we make the best investments. Otherwise, I’m harming my own reputation. I have as much to lose as the partners if something goes wrong. But I am in a position to make a difference.

SK: That’s what motivates you.

NM: Yes.

SK: It’s real power, but it’s also real responsibility.

NM: Oh, yes, yes. Absolutely. And it’s a much bigger responsibility I would say. This time round, the frustration won’t be because a good program or university didn’t get financial support. The frustration for me would be that an institution did not deliver, and worse, it would mean I have also not delivered. I have to show results. If I have said that this is a good program and it failed, now I would have to explain why it wasn’t a good cause. So there is more responsibility, for me, clearly, much more responsibility.

SK: You won’t be relaxing very much.

NM: No.

SK: You’ve said the Partnership to Strengthen African Universities (Note: see sidebar) with Ford, Rockefeller, and MacArthur is risky. Why is it worth the risk?

NM: Because it puts us among those who can reinforce the conditions for a good outcome. It’s not about determining the future of Africa. Like the future of everything else, that’s something we build day after day. But I think it’s worth the risk. We are talking about investing in education. That’s the business we are in in Africa, be it supporting public libraries or scholarships for women in higher education or universities. Our program is about providing opportunities for education.

And there is a risk. But even partial success sometimes is important in the sense that if we assist universities to improve their managerial capacity, the quality of their training, and, after all, educate more citizens, somehow—I could even say, regardless of what happens, ultimately, to a particular university twenty years from now—the fact that we have contributed to educating several generations of students is still a positive impact.

I have no doubt we will have an impact beyond measurable results. It’s not about counting heads, or about how many students we have trained, how many study programs have been organized or how many computers we have provided and so on. That’s only part of the equation. What’s equally important is the change of mood, of attitude, of perception about education, about the role of universities, our role in promoting dialogue, improving the relationship between government and institutions in the country.

SK: You’ve got me convinced. Thank you.

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