Narciso Matos — an interview

In January 2000, Narciso Matos joined Carnegie Corporation of New York as a senior program officer with a mandate to help shape the foundation’s new program in Afican higher education. A native of Mozambique, Professor Matos previously served as secretary general of the Association of African Universities (AAU) and was a member of the Advisory Group on Higher Education to the Secretary General of UNESCO. He is a chemist by training and a graduate of Eduardo Mondlane Unviersity in Maputo, Mozambique, where he also served as dean of the faculty of science and later, as vice chancellor. He is interviewed here by Susan Robinson King, vice president of public affairs for the Corporation.

SK: Tell me where you grew up. How many were in your family?

NM: Well, I was the fourth of a family of nine children, so it was a very large family. I grew up in the suburbs of Maputo, the capital city of Mozambique. During the colonial time, cities like Maputo were clearly divided even if there were no laws legalizing separation. But you knew where you should go and where you should not. It had to do with living space and the schools you could visit, even the church you could go to. Everything was segregated.

SK: White and black.

NM: Strictly white and black. And it’s interesting because South Africa is known for having institutionalized the separation of blacks and whites. But it was also there in Mozambique and it was also there in Rhodesia and other colonies at that time. So I grew up in the suburbs of a major city in southern Africa. And at a time when black kids could only go to missionary schools. In a sense I belonged to the first generation, even in my family, that had the opportunity to go to a public school, which was unheard of. But my parents, they understood the difference. In a public school you could have opportunities. The missionary school was helpful but it would not bring you beyond a certain level of education, that was the politics of the time.

Interestingly, I don’t remember this kind of segregation in public school, which is strange. I mean, black kids and white kids, we were friends while at school. But at the same time, during all my education I don’t remember visiting a white colleague, or the other way around.

SK: You didn’t play with white kids?

NM: No, we played at school, but that was the end of it. I mean we belonged to different worlds, their families were separate from our families. But going to public school did give me access to education.

I should say it was also a time of change. For example I’ve heard even my older brothers saying, “Well, we could not go to the movies because that was in the city and it was not for blacks.” I could go. In my time, that was already allowed. So separation in some sectors of social life was starting to disappear. I grew up going to movies, I grew up studying in a public school. And we used to study in cafes. In Portugal and in other parts of Europe, and also in Portuguese colonies, the cafe is the place where you socialize. But we also went there to study. For black kids like us it was also the only possibility of having light—electricity—and being able to study after six o’clock when it became dark. So we had this small world of ours which also provided opportunities.

SK: Tell me a little bit about the public school that you went to.

NM: I started in the first grade. At the time there were four years of primary education and then there was a secondary education which was the lycée, like in the French system, for a duration of seven years and after that, university. When I think of it today it’s really incredible because I think that from grade one to what here in U.S. would be grade twelve, I was always one of only two or three black kids in my class. One of very few black kids in the whole school.

SK: How did you get into the public school if there were so few blacks?

NM: I think that my parents understood that to get us, the kids, into that school would open doors that otherwise would always be closed. My older brothers and sisters, except for one, started in missionary schools. Eventually they also moved to public school. But I was the first child in the family who went straight to a public school.

In society, there was a system that separated people; you had a school with white teachers only. But they didn’t treat you differently. They treated you like any other kid. And your classmates, also, they didn’t treat you differently. So it was kind of interesting. I mean, underneath the established system, there were the individual human beings and they dealt with us, at least at school, like with any other kids.

SK: That’s worth a memoir. Your mom was at home; what was your dad’s field of work?

NM: He was a telegraph operator. At that time there was the Morse code system of communication.

SK: Andrew Carnegie was involved in the same thing, you know. He was a master of Morse code in a telegraph office.

NM: My father worked in the Navy and so his role was in communications. That was his profession. But he was really interested in just about everything. So in his free time, which was never free time, not for him and not for us, he was doing all sorts of things. He was building his house, he was fixing his car, he was doing things that, when I think of it today, I say, my goodness, what a great person. I strongly admire my parents.

Next page: I preferred science, I preferred math, I preferred physics and chemistry.

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